According to Armanda International, ST Kinetics is optimistic that SAF will buy some Terrex for overseas missions.

I presume it is talking about UN peacekeeping missions.

Looking Timor Leste ops over there , SAF uses LSV plus small truck for troop transport. Luckily we only talking abt armed bandits over there.

If they are in Somalia or Iraq where there are armed insurgents with RPG etc, those vehicles are certainly not adequate.

i have been wondering, why didn't SAF buy terrex to replace certain M113 units or the V200....even though they have been recently been refurbished but buying say 100 or 200 units, to replace older vehicles might not be a bad idea after all. at least it will give us certain capabilities (as what ST advertised)....

hope to see these in SAF's arsenal... they look quite cool... wonder why didn't MINDEF buy it

chicken and egg question.....

SAF MUST buy because STK developed it? If STK did not have Terrex, would SAF have to buy?

Overseas missions? Isn't it risky?

I think Merkavas Super Thick Armor would be more appropriate.

Not sure if the SAF armour has an operational requirement for the terrex... since the bulk of their hardware are tracked vehicles. So if the SAF does buy the terrex, where would they go?

Armour units will continue with their own tracked vehicles. But it does not mean that only armour units will operate armoured vehicles. The Terrex can replace the V200 vehicles that are used by infantry/guards units, or serve as weapons platforms in other units. The Terrex offers better protection when compared to 3/5 tonners.

It depends on the type of overseas mission the SAF goes to - all which are till this date quiet tame. So Terrax might be an overkill.

True, but it is in the interest of the govt and the SAF servicemen that they are well protected and equipped for such missions.

For UN peacekeeping ops, AFVs are commonly used especially wheeled version for cities and towns, therefore SAF should at least give them the right tools and protection to do their jobs.

So far there is no fatalities , could SAF afford one?

I think not, especially for volunteers and NS servicemen.

remember reading abt malaysia's kfor mission in bosnia. Their peacekeepers there realized after a while that they lacked armoured protection for their patrols. The govt then quickly sourced and bought off the shelf a small fleet of APVs from daewoo korea that was quickly shipped over

Exactly, the thing is that almost all the UN peacekeeping missions that the SAF particpated were rather tame say compared to situations in the Balkans, East Africa or right now in Haiti. The government seems to wave the flag only in places where casaulties will be absolutely mimimal. Not that I'm complaining that is.

But looking at the trend..the SAF might be more involved in active peacekeeping missions..and they might already have..

Our Iraq deployment last year was rumoured to have more than just RSAF and RSN elements.. <_<

wha was the rumour?

Somewhere on the lines of resupply convoys.

care to elaborate more on this rumour?

About these 3/5 tonners......

Is it feasible to design an armoured pallet mounting (somewhat) 40/50 turret (self contained with electricals, etc) to go onto them......

I can guess a need for PAF to supplement their fight in the south.......

Possibly a much more cost effective UN vehicle with more operational flexibility.....

x2... anyway our police did send over some cops there to train up the police force

heard the armour guys went there as well...though it's unsubstantiated.

S'pore could send a contingent to Afghanistan as a follow-up to the last time it sent a UN military adviser. The country is definitely a lot more challenging than Timor Leste due to AQ pockets still present. At the same time it's closer to home as well.

Quite a number of 1st world troops are deployed there as well so there's opportunity for the 'inter-operability' thing

Of course NSFs need not apply for this mission

It will be cool if the Terrex can be deployed in SG itself. The whole vehicle is highly automated!!! But wonder what is the survivability in real operations times epsecially under fire. Looks good in time of peace but how about war??

Look like our 40/7.62 RWS is mounted on top.

http://www.otokar.com/en/products/product_...il.aspx?urun=45

Anyone here has info on whether we have sold any Terrex and Bronco to the Turkish army?

Hi,

ST Engg Annual Report 2003 :

Building on paststrength for future Growth

extract..

In October, ST Kinetics signed two cooperative agreements with leading Turkish automotive manufacturer, Otokar Otobus Karoseri Sanayi A. S. (Otokar). The first agreement on the Terrex (called Yavuz in Turkish, meaning “robust and forceful”) provides the framework for joint collaboration on design, manufacturing and agreement on marketing rights.
The second agreement with Otokar sets the basis for marketing ST Kinetics’ Bronco (called Sakarya in Turkish, named after the city where Otokar’s manufacturing plant is located) to the Turkish Land Forces. Both companies believe that the Yavuz and Sakarya have potential in meeting the requirements of the Turkish Armed Forces.

Happy reading..

Now all we need is a comparison with the Stryker.Think it should be more agile.

The Stryker's battlefield lethality (and cost) doesn't really stem from the vehicle itself, rather it's from the situational awareness provided through the digital equipment installed in it that connects it to ISR assets. Compare the vehicle alone and I dont think the Stryker is anything exceptional. There are quite a few technologies lined up for the Stryker itself and the Stryker brigades though, that are quite interesting. IIRC an active protection system is slated to go on the Strykers. The IAAPs and the Trophy are being evaluated, I think...

Its interesting that the Otokar is being made C-130 transportable, imposing the same weight and size constraints on itself as the Stryker...

Given the scope of operations for our rdf or mech. infantry , i do think that much can be achieved by reversed r&d . take for example the israeli merkava family , as many of you know , has the ability take up the role of troop transport . i suppose that many soldiers are very "edgy" riding to a battlefield on an m113 or in this case the terrex which has a 50/50 chance of getting fried by an rpg7 . we all know that the israelis are the most experienced , if not second to the americans in modern day battle . What am i saying is , we can have the best of both worlds when we have something like the merkava in which it can be our MBT (replacing our WW2 era tanks) and troop transport . IMO , we do not need (for now) for our armoured forces to be air transportable . Mind you , we are not trying to conquer the world or become the world's police like the uncle sammies . Given the production of our "home-made" bionix , maybe the fusion of Merkava and Bionix would be ideal for a spearhead operation . Not forgetting the M113 , it can be used to carry out peacekeeping missions , recon , medivac etc. . Btw i have a question in which i would like all of you to answer , i do not quite understand the need for us to have a vehicle in our inventory like the Terrex which is air transportable . Since the survivablity of an IFV or an AFV is highly suspect , i don't see much use of these vehicles if they are deployed behind enemy lines .

I'm thinking that if SAF ever purchases the Terrex,it will be for LIC peacekeeping.

Hmm..... guys, I came across an interesting article from a PRC military website. It was talking abt Taiwan's latest designed 8 wheels armoured vehicles. Firstly, it claims that a 25mm bushmaster gun is on it and 105 guns variant is also planned. It also said that the Taiwan vehicle also known as "Yun Bao" is a close clone to our singapore AV81 terrex, and they even lament on potential close defense help Singapore might provide to Taiwan.

I got some qns.... :unsure:

How is our 8 wheeled vehicles going to fit our doctrine?
Any possible frontline roles?
Any potential variants?
The article also claimed that the Vehicle is vulnerable to a 105mm gun, how true?
( I know the article is to a certain extent biased)
Any idea how the Taiwan 8x8 is going to fit into roles to counter PLA invasion? :blink:

If I remember correctly, the MP Brigade is a crack, elite counterterror unit designed to provide point defense for the Taiwanese government bulidings and the CBD in the event of a PLA airborne landing.

In the city center of Taipei, speed and wheels are the best option.

(Oh yes, any APC or IFV is vulnerable to 105mm guns in one way or another.They sacrifice armor for speed and capacity.)

Guys a piece of wonderful news toshare with u all. Terrex has officially been accepted bySAF. SAF bought 300 units. Indonesia is also discussing we ST to setup a license producing in their country so is Turkey.

http://jczs.sina.com.cn/2006-03-20/0942358456.html

Could this perhaps mean that SAF's next replacement for AMX13s could be based on the Terrex??

Add new info abt Terrex, this is from lionnoisy from sgforum,according to this Chinese report, SAF has ordered 300 Terrex?!?

And it also reported that Indonesia is interested in getting 420 Terrex by the way licensed porducing them.

True or not , you decide.

http://jczs.sina.com.cn/2006-03-20/0942358456.html

I think it is meant for the V200. Maybe, the Terrex could be amphibious and replace AMX-10?

Sorry, same topic so I merged it. :)

One thing I am a bit reserved due to the source, but if it is true , SAF should be relacing the V150/200s, but the problem is the V200 are recently upgraded from a petrol to diesel engine?

I wonder about the source too.

Anyway - the V200s were upgraded with diesel engines a few years ago. There are also some very minor improvements to the internal sitting arrangements, external surfaces, a new turret cage - so people like me won't get our foot stuck in the turret.

Like what I've posted before here and in the other forum, use of wheeled APCs are different from the amoured units.

more smoke amongst everything?

There is no need to phase out the V200s as of yet, they can be shifted for homeland defence and still be used in the FDS and 2PDF.Perhaps more units to be created?Or simply a shift in tactics etc.

Terrex is produced in Turkey as the Yavuz.There is a rumoured 105mm main gun version when Timoney Tech was advertising the Terrex.

I don't understand the rationale behind this buy. Especially against the background of the V200 upgrades.

Some talk about using it as command vehicles for urban warfare(don't understand this too)? But 300 is alot of command vehicles!

Edit: So we are really sending NS men to Iraq?! Maybe the terrain around us has urbanised so much that it makes wheeled vehicles a feasible option? Please educate me.

I'm no expert. Could you or other please elaborate a little more on how wheeled armoured vehicles like the Terrex will be used differently as from those in armoured units?

Does it mean they allow SAF to leverage on their speed over harder surfaces? When faced with opposition....how different will such forces react?

Or maybe these are meant for support functions - battlefield taxis?

Pardon my ignorance. Please educate me.

I believe he's mentioning that the wheeled APCs will not be part of our Armoured forces.

They should be placed as organic armor support in pure infantry forces, something along the lines of a mechanized infantry with the wheeled APCs as battlefield taxis and medium fire support.But they won't form part of the heavy armour thrust.

Well, i don't think we are sending NSmen to Iraq. But a good place for furthering our combat experimentation is Afghanistan, perhaps there we would gain much more experience.

Sending our troops to the frontline of Afghanistan is a very sensitive issue. Even for combat experimentation. Will Sg be getting more terrorist threat should that happened? :blink:

So Terrex will be used in the PDFs and other infantry units not in the Combined Arms Division.

I guess I 'know' how/what the PDFs will do with their Terrex.

But these other infantry units.....I think it's new tactics here. Armour thrust and the infantry mop up and occupy.

So is it just new hardware(to keep production lines running) or is this a reaction to counter new moves in FIBUA.

Thanks LazerLordz.