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 Singapore buy Spyder
pirate
Posted: Feb 26 2008, 08:00 PM


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MilFan
Posted: Feb 26 2008, 08:16 PM


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About time they get a new system to replace the Rapiers

The Spyder missiles are said to have total commonality with the A2A versions
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Joe Black
Posted: Feb 26 2008, 08:57 PM


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It's about "bloody" time! smile.gif
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YourFather
Posted: Feb 26 2008, 09:07 PM


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June 2005 article

QUOTE
Paris Air Show: Rafael's Spyder comes out in the open
Robin Hughes JDW Middle East Editor
Paris Air Show

Rafael Armament Development Authority displayed for the first time a Spyder (Surface-to-air PYthon & DERby) air-defence system, including missile launcher unit and command-and-control unit (CCU) at the 2005 Paris Air Show at Le Bourget.

The product of collaborative effort between Israel Aircraft Industries' (IAI's) MBT Missile Division and Elta Radar Division, with Rafael as prime contractor, Spyder is a low-level quick-reaction surface-to-air missile (SAM) system capable of engaging aircraft, helicopters, unmanned aerial vehicles and precision-guided munitions using Rafael missiles and IAI's command, control, computers, communications and intelligence networked radar.

The system comprises a 6 x 6 truck-mounted CCU incorporating the IAI/Elta EL/M 2106 ATAR 3-D surveillance radar, 'identification friend or foe' and communications equipment; and truck-mounted missile firing units (MFUs). The CCU surveillance radar includes advanced electronic counter-countermeasures capabilities and can simultaneously track 60 targets with a 360º engagement day/night all-weather capability, according to Rafael.

The Spyder MFU combines any combination of four Derby active radar (RF) and Python 5 dual band imaging infra-red (IR) air-to-air missiles in a SAM role on a 360º rotatable electro-mechanical turret-based truck-mounted launcher unit. It was displayed at Le Bourget mounted on a Tatra 6 x 6 truck. The system features lock-on-before-launch and lock-on-after-launch modes of operation with fire-and-forget and target-update capabilities. "The combination of missiles and modes enables us to cover the complete kill zone, both RF and IR," a Rafael official told JDW. A Rafael Toplite day/night observation and targeting payload configured for air surveillance was mounted on the cab of the MFU displayed at Paris. Wireless datalink communication enables deployment of the MFUs at a distance of up to 10 km from the CCU, the official said.

Rafael announced in February that Spyder had successfully achieved two direct hard-body kills on target drones during trials at the company's Shdema test range in Israel. "This year we will be conducting several tests against high-/low-altitude and short-range targets, from heights of 20 m to 9 km and ranges from 700 m to more than 15 km, using a 2 m2 target," the official said.

A standard Spyder squadron includes one CCU and six MFUs, supported by dedicated missile supply and service vehicles. The official told JDW that Rafael had recently signed a contract with an "Asian" country for the supply of three Spyder squadrons, although he did not disclose the price. The Israel Defence Force has yet to place an order for the system.



Might be India, but I think they went for Spyder-MR... so that leaves...? huh.gif

This post has been edited by YourFather on Feb 26 2008, 09:09 PM


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MilFan
Posted: Feb 26 2008, 09:48 PM


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Couldn't that be Sg? 3 years sounds reasonable catering for further dev etc etc

With Derbys, the range is said to be 40km ...sounds like both short and medium range can be catered for with batteries using pythons or derbys.
The I-hawks are getting old too....
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LionFlyer
Posted: Feb 26 2008, 09:49 PM


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The Indian buy is for the basic Spyder variant.

There was a interview with the Chief of Airforce published in the Defensenews that they are still evaluating 3 systems, SLAMRAAM, MICA VL and Spyder.
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kanzer
Posted: Feb 26 2008, 09:53 PM


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a comprehensive intro to the system...

link to spyder
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YourFather
Posted: Feb 26 2008, 10:17 PM


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Ah, so those 3 squadrons could still be for India... So they have the Spyder-SR and want the Spyder-MR as well. Milfan, what we're getting is the Spyder-SR, and when ground launched, you cannot take the A2A range anymore. Range becomes drastically reduced unless the missile is given a booster, which is only there in the Spyder-MR system. To give an idea of how much range is lost, the Phoenix had a surface launched derivative that could barely reach 20 miles as compared to the 100+ miles it could reach in the air-launched variant.


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Callsign 24 Seira
Posted: Feb 26 2008, 10:23 PM


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There is more Israel / India partnership on missiles...or is it Spyder?

Rafael, Tata Power Join To Offer ADS System To Indian Air Force

Company News Rafael Tata Power Israeli armament major Rafael announced that the company has joined hands with the Tata power to offer maintenance work of Air Defense Systems (ADS). The company will supply this ADS system to the Indian Air Force. This is a very unique and most advanced air defense system available in the world.

Rafael is an authority for development of weapons and military technology for the country. Rafael is a former sub-division of the Israeli Defense ministry and is considered a governmental firm. It develops and produces fighting-technologies for the Israel Defense Forces as well for exporting abroad.

Rafael will sign the Production Transfer Program (PTP) agreement within this fiscal with the Tata group company.

The missiles will target low flying threats. It will to replace the Indian Air Force's ageing Russian supplied Sam-6 and Sam-7 missiles. The missiles would be used in tandem with India's indigenous Akash surface-to-air missiles which have recently been cleared for induction after successful test-fire. It will protect the country from all kinds of enemy aircrafts.

Rafael's director for air-to-air and air defense systems Oron Oriol said that under the proposed agreement, Tata Power will manufacture some parts of the air defense systems and do the maintenance work post delivery.

The fifth generation surface-to-air or air-to-air Python-5 missile can be launched from very short to beyond-visual ranges. It has greater kill probability, excellent resistance to countermeasures, irrespective of evasive target maneuvers or deployment of countermeasures.

http://www.stockwatch.in/rafael-tata-power...-air-force-2552


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LazerLordz
Posted: Feb 26 2008, 10:24 PM


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I reckon it's the usual game, get the SR first, maybe enhancment later. laugh.gif


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LazerLordz
Posted: Feb 26 2008, 10:26 PM


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QUOTE (MilFan @ Feb 26 2008, 09:48 PM)
Couldn't that be Sg? 3 years sounds reasonable catering for further dev etc etc

With Derbys, the range is said to be 40km ...sounds like both short and medium range can be catered for with batteries using pythons or derbys.
The I-hawks are getting old too....

Sounds like the perfect lead-in timing for an official announcement in our usual style.


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diCam
Posted: Feb 26 2008, 11:02 PM


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If SG acquired Spyder SR then the MR at a later date that would mean the gradual replacement of Rapier and the eventual replacement of I-Hawk. One stone kill two birds. Good decision!

So... does that mean that RSAF already has the Python 5 and Derby in service? rolleyes.gif


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LazerLordz
Posted: Feb 26 2008, 11:26 PM


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QUOTE (diCam @ Feb 26 2008, 11:02 PM)
If SG acquired Spyder SR then the MR at a later date that would mean the gradual replacement of Rapier and the eventual replacement of I-Hawk. One stone kill two birds. Good decision!

So... does that mean that RSAF already has the Python 5 and Derby in service? rolleyes.gif

very good question...speculation has been around for a long time..


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diCam
Posted: Feb 26 2008, 11:44 PM


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The Spyder ADMS has anti-CM capability. Mmm... hopefully RSAF will get their hands on the MR ADS version. That will sure extend the ability to defence of our airspace. cool.gif


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MilFan
Posted: Feb 26 2008, 11:44 PM


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QUOTE (diCam @ Feb 26 2008, 11:02 PM)
If SG acquired Spyder SR then the MR at a later date that would mean the gradual replacement of Rapier and the eventual replacement of I-Hawk. One stone kill two birds. Good decision!

So... does that mean that RSAF already has the Python 5 and Derby in service? rolleyes.gif

If they didn't before, it sounds like a very good ideal now
wink.gif

The Indian-Rafael Spyder deal is on hold at the moment, mired in investigations on alleged bribery charges .... The Akash system has come into service meanwhile
The Spyder was a stop-gap measure because of delays in getting the Akash on-line.

For medium range, there was a JV on an ER variant of the naval Barak NG tipped for the role as well.




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Sayaret
Posted: Feb 27 2008, 01:25 AM


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Read in www.alert5.com that SG itself is providing the radar portion of the equation.... is our own radars that effective? With these would it mean no Patriots?? But dont think rapiers & hawk will be thrown away just like... still effective for region and sphere... rivals' current aircraft inventroy can still be handled by them (rapier and hawk)


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LazerLordz
Posted: Feb 27 2008, 03:00 AM


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QUOTE (Sayaret @ Feb 27 2008, 01:25 AM)
Read in www.alert5.com that SG itself is providing the radar portion of the equation.... is our own radars that effective? With these would it mean no Patriots?? But dont think rapiers & hawk will be thrown away just like... still effective for region and sphere... rivals' current aircraft inventroy can still be handled by them (rapier and hawk)

I think as usual, those systems will end up with PDF. laugh.gif


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kotay
Posted: Feb 27 2008, 09:23 AM


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I-Hawk ... PDF ... retired AMX-13s ... Hmmmm ....

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A blast from the past biggrin.gif
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diCam
Posted: Feb 27 2008, 10:03 AM


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QUOTE (LazerLordz @ Feb 27 2008, 03:00 AM)
QUOTE (Sayaret @ Feb 27 2008, 01:25 AM)
Read in www.alert5.com that SG itself is providing the radar portion of the equation.... is our own radars that effective? With these would it mean no Patriots?? But dont think rapiers & hawk will be thrown away just like... still effective for region and sphere... rivals' current aircraft inventroy can still be handled by them (rapier and hawk)

I think as usual, those systems will end up with PDF. laugh.gif

It will be costly to maintain different ADMS leh... Rapier from UK, I-Hawk from US and the newly acquired Israelis' SPYDER... The cost of maintaining the operational capability and life span of these existing missiles alone is already high, not to mentioned the upkeep of the supporting hardwares like the radar and fire-control system.

Correct me if I'm wrong... PDF do not have ADMS (I mean Rapier and I-Hawk type) element in their structure. From information I read in MINDEF's website, PDF "is responsible for the 24/7 protection of key installations and for coordinating military resources to assist Homefront agencies in civil emergencies, with the HQ manned round the clock to provide an effective and efficient response to incidents island-wide". It doesn't make sense to me that PDF replicate some of the functions perform by RSAF's Air Defence and Operations Command. If AA capability is required, MANPAD like Igna and Mistral or even RBS70 would be more appropriate for such operational requirements.






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LazerLordz
Posted: Feb 27 2008, 10:35 AM


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QUOTE (diCam @ Feb 27 2008, 10:03 AM)
QUOTE (LazerLordz @ Feb 27 2008, 03:00 AM)
QUOTE (Sayaret @ Feb 27 2008, 01:25 AM)
Read in www.alert5.com that SG itself is providing the radar portion of the equation.... is our own radars that effective? With these would it mean no Patriots?? But dont think rapiers & hawk will be thrown away just like... still effective for region and sphere... rivals' current aircraft inventroy can still be handled by them (rapier and hawk)

I think as usual, those systems will end up with PDF. laugh.gif

It will be costly to maintain different ADMS leh... Rapier from UK, I-Hawk from US and the newly acquired Israelis' SPYDER... The cost of maintaining the operational capability and life span of these existing missiles alone is already high, not to mentioned the upkeep of the supporting hardwares like the radar and fire-control system.

Correct me if I'm wrong... PDF do not have ADMS (I mean Rapier and I-Hawk type) element in their structure. From information I read in MINDEF's website, PDF "is responsible for the 24/7 protection of key installations and for coordinating military resources to assist Homefront agencies in civil emergencies, with the HQ manned round the clock to provide an effective and efficient response to incidents island-wide". It doesn't make sense to me that PDF replicate some of the functions perform by RSAF's Air Defence and Operations Command. If AA capability is required, MANPAD like Igna and Mistral or even RBS70 would be more appropriate for such operational requirements.

What I meant was storage and maintenance. I seriously don't think we'd dump those systems even if we're not using them in active roles.

PDF can maintain and store them until there is a need to use them.


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